General Medicine

» erickajb - Grave's Disease

In response to Grave's Disease posted by finyx:

I deliverd my first born in Dec. 2005 and became Hyper 2 months later. I am still hyper even though my levels got a little better but still really high. I hears about Bugleweed. I wonder if the bottled Bugleweed pills work the same? I would love to have some if you still have it available.
I visted 2 Endos. one told me that I have Grave's since I didn't recover from being Hyper and the other one told me that I have Grave's and Hashimoto's. My doctor disagrees with this one. It's a possbililty that I have Grave's or I am still experiencing Postpartum Thyroiditis.
Here are my levels....
My results in April 2006....
Thyroglubin Antibodies 246 H
Thyroid Peroxidase 1000 H
T3 800 H
FT4 5.6 H
TSH 0.01 L

My Results in July 2006... (without Antibodies Tests)
FSH 2.5
T3 800 H
FT4 10.6 H
TSH 0.01

My Results in August 2006...
Thyroglubin Antibodies 331 H
Thyroid Peroxidase 1000 H
T3 800 H
FT4 5.6 H
TSH 0.02 L

Creatinine 0.4 L
BUN/Creatinine Ratio 33 H
Alkaline Phosphatease 212 H
Red Blood Cell Count 5.16 H
MVC 78.8 H
MCH 26.3 H
Platelet Count 411 H

Erica

-- posted by erickajb

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» Elaine Moore - Grave's Disease

In response to Grave's Disease posted by finyx:
Hi Finyx,
Bugleweed, either Lycopus Virginicus and Lycopus Americanus, are excellent treatments for Graves' disease. In traditional Chinese Medicine they're often used as tonics with lemon balm.
Studies show that bugleweed safely and effectively reduces both thyroid hormone levels and the antibodies (TSI) responsible for Graves' disease. The German Commission E has approved it for use in hyperthyroidism.
It's great that you have a supply that you're willing to share. Thanks, Elaine

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» Elaine Moore - Grave's Disease

In response to Grave's Disease posted by erickajb:
Hi Erica,
With your high levels of thyroid antibodies and obvious hyperthyroidism, you have Graves' disease. Your doctor is probably confused about the thyroid antibodies and doesn't realize that they're present in 90% of Graves' patients and also nearly all patients with Hashimoto's thyroiditis.

Your MCV is low, showing that your red blood cells are small, which is usually caused by iron deficiency. Your red blood cell count is elevated and MCH is elevated, which shows that you're not anemic. Usually, doctors just order an iron and ferritin level when MCV is low. I'm not sure why your platelet count is slightly elevated although I suspect it will return to normal once your levels are in control.

The alkaline phosphatase level is often elevated in hyperthyroidism and should fall once you start treatment with either antithyroid drugs or bugleweed.

Although Graves' disease that develops in the postpartum period often resolves easily, when blood levels are as high as yours treatment is needed to help lower them. A low iodine diet can also help (avoiding fast and processed foods, iodized salt, etc) but it would be best if you used a low dose of anti-thyroid drugs to lower your levels and perhaps beta blockers to reduce any cardiac symptoms.

Finyx included her email address in the post so you might want to email her directly about the bugleweed in case she misses your post. Best to you, Elaine

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» finyx - Grave's Disease

In response to Grave's Disease posted by daisyelaine:
Hi daisyelaine,
Right, I forgot about Lycopus Virginicus. I remembered Americanus because it grows here, and is easily accessible.
I didn't know the other info you stated. That's fantastic. Thanks for that.
Finyx

-- posted by finyx

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» finyx - Grave's Disease

In response to Grave's Disease posted by erickajb:
Hi there Erica,
Yes, I would send you some of the tincture I made if you are so inclined - just let me know.
All the best,
Finyx

-- posted by finyx

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» Elaine Moore - Grave's Disease

In response to Grave's Disease posted by finyx:
Hi Finyx,
Some of the people I know who have had success with bugleweed continued to use it in tea as needed for the first year or so after achieving remission.
I was wondering if you did so too and if you still use it on occasion since you're lucky enough to have good access to it. Adding a few drops of lemon balm extract to tea is also often used as needed for people who've gone into remission and have occasional symptoms.
Studies show that after remission it's common to experience some transient hyper symptoms for up to a year. The study's authors warn against confusing this with a relapse. To relieve these transient symptoms using bugleweed or lemon balm as needed is the perfect solution. Best, Elaine

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» erickajb - Grave's Disease

In response to Grave's Disease posted by finyx:

I'm really sorry that it's been so long since I posted.
New development.... I also have PCOS. I started a birth control to see if that works. It will be at least 2 more months until we can see results.

Yes, I would love some of the tincture if you still have some.

-- posted by erickajb

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» Elaine Moore - Grave's Disease

In response to Grave's Disease posted by erickajb:
Hi Ericka,
In case Flynx isn't still reading this thread, her original post said to email her at spiralingbliss@yahoo.com for the bugleweed tincture.

I hope the oral contraceptives work well with your PCOS. Some of my friends have had good success with this approach.
Best, Elaine

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» fionamom - Thyroglobulin Antibodies & Antinucleur Antibodies

In response to Thyroglobulin Antibodies & Antinucleur Antibodies posted by daisyelaine:

Hi!

I just saw this post about hives and thyroid and had to respond- I had a terrible, terrible case of hives all over my lower body for many months after giving birth. It was eventually diagnosed as stress-induced or anemia-induced hives. My labwork for this rash showed thyroid antibodies but normal thyroid function. Six months later I followed up on the labwork and had hyperthyroid function- With 2 motnhs of treatment of acupuncture and bugleweed I now have normal T4 levels but T3 is slightly/barely too high and TSH is still low/less than .06. My endo originally thought I had Grave's but now is thinking it could be postpartum thyroiditis after she looked at my thyroid on the ultrasound. The only symptoms I have had are anxiety, the rash after giving birth, and weight loss from 8 months - 11 months post partum. The weight loss has now stopped at 12 months postpartum- maybe because the bugleweed? Or because the T4 is now within range?
I am now wondering how to taper off of bugleweed- my acupuncturist told me there is a 6 week lag between thyroid function and when it shows on the lab work. I have heard bugleweed can lower TSH. I have also heard bugleweed can alter the thyroid in ways that can make doctor exams less accurate- hopefully my bugleweed usage didn't affect the appearance of the thyroid to lead the doctor to her diagnosis of postpartum thyroiditis. Elaine- do you know if bugleweed can bring everything into balance, including T3, antibodies, and TSH? Can it mess up ultrasound results, or is it just the ioding uptake test that it can interfere with? And if it is true that blood work shows a picture of thyroid function 6 weeks ago, how do people adjust their meds accordingly? Thanks so much!
Fiona
PS- I have been worried sick over the diagnosis of possible Grave's and am so thankful for this resource!

I had some questions- not sure if I should repost?
Could the use of Bugleweed

-- posted by fionamom

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» Elaine Moore - Thyroglobulin Antibodies & Antinucleur Antibodies

In response to Thyroglobulin Antibodies & Antinucleur Antibodies posted by fionamom:
Hi,
Your actual thyroid hormone levels, T4 and T3 (which are falsely elevated during the postpartum period) reflect your thyroid status in real time. These levels, by the way, are best measured as Free T4 and Free T3 with the FT4 and FT3 levels. The total T4 and T3 measure inactive hormone that's linked to protein molecules. Estrogen increases your levels of binding protein. So T4 and T3 can be high because of thyroid hormone or because of these protein molecules. In women, these levels are often falsely elevated especially in pregnancy and during the postpartum period. Tests for FT4 and FT3 measure your levels of available thyroid hormone, the stuff that can react with your body's cells and cause the effects associated with thyroid hormone.
But back to your question, TSH, which is a pituitary hormone, lags at least 6 weeks behind your thyroid hormone levels. And in Graves' disease it will stay low for a long time, even when you're euthyroid (have normal thyroid function). The TSH test is misleading in this case.
Bugleweed lowers TSH production in an effort to reduce hyperthyroidism. TSH normally tells your thyroid cells to produce more hormone. So by reducing TSH production, bugleweed lowers your thyroid hormone levels. Bugleweed also acts much like Anti-thyroid drugs in that it blocks iodine absorption, thereby reducing the amount of thyroid hormone you can make. Bugleweed is also known to inhibit the actions of TSI, the thyroid antibodies that cause hyperthyroidism in Graves' disease. The bugleweed shouldn't have interfered with your test results.
The ultrasound will tell if you have nodules causing hyperthyroidism and it can tell if your thyroid gland is enlarged. The gland isn't always enlarged in Graves' disease so the ultrasound just tells you that you don't have hyperthyroidism caused by nodules.
To tell if you have Graves' disease, tests for TSI would be helpful. In both Graves' disease and postpartum thyroiditis you can have low levels of TPO or thyroglobulin antibodies.
The RAI uptake, which I generally don't recommend, is also low in postpartum thyroiditis and high in Graves' disease. But most researchers today think that PPT and GD are similar disorders when they occur in the postpartum period. They both resolve on their own rather quickly although with PPT the hyperthyroidism is usually followed by a period of hypothyroidism. Whereas in Graves' disease, only about 20% of patients spontaneously move into hypothyroidism. And in both disorders, the hypothyroidism can also resolve on its own.

Neither of these disorders is associated with a positive antinuclear antibody (ANA) test result although a low titer (under 80) can be seen in normal people and sometimes occurs in people with autoimmune thyroid disorders transiently.

Because of your hives, my money would be on Graves' disease. Best, Elaine

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